Sunday, February 7, 2010

Were the Tanakh prophesies purposely impossible so the Jews would not be led astray by a false prophet?

Not at all. I'm sure if God had predicted freeing the slaves to the Israelites it would have seemed ridiculously impossible. Actually they do several times question him completely. What sounds impossible may not be when the time is right.





There's a misconception of basic Jewish ideas in many of the answers. They are coming from the Christian concept that ';belief'; is required, a credal religion. Judaism is about looking for levels of meanings %26amp; wisdoms as a way to live a better %26amp; more moral life.





There's no ';back door'; because there's no belief to escape from. There's no ';failure by design'; because the messiah concept is NOT the focus of Judaism %26amp; very different than the Christian one. It's hard to believe when living in a Christian world, but even Orthodox have an option of a allegorical meaning to it. It's just not some fixed concept we're sitting on pins %26amp; needles about. Contrary to that, we see it as OUR job to repair the world to make it possible for the messiah to arise.





The Jewish messiah concept does not involve salvation or sin or hell or sacrifice of a human or God-human spirit. The whole Christian focus on anti-Christ doesn't exist in Judaism. There's nothing in Judaism to be lead astray from. We aren't going to worship the messiah, which is a human, so ';astray'; doesn't have nearly as much meaning. Either we've succeeded in bringing the world to a better place %26amp; God's brought us another Moses...or not.Were the Tanakh prophesies purposely impossible so the Jews would not be led astray by a false prophet?
The prophesies in the Hebrew Bible were never impossible, it is the Christian Bible that makes them impossible by declaring that the messiah will be God Himself. Jews believe the messiah will be a great human leader who will usher in an era of universal peace on earth for all mankind. If we were all to work together for peace, that would not be such an impossibility.





It is not the Hebrew Bible that calls for condemnation of non-Christians to eternal torment. There is no place of eternal torment in Judaism.





It is not the Hebrew Bible that calls for resurrection of a dead Jew before the arrival of the messianic era.





The prophesies are difficult, but definitely not too difficult for any of us to work toward.





The Jewish meaning of prophesy is much different from the Christian meaning:





';A prophet never foretells 'a fixed, unchangeable future.' Prophets do not predict what will happen tomorrow. Instead, 'they announce a present that requires human choice and decision.' It is a present 'in which the future is being prepared' but whose outcome depends upon the work and decisions of human beings.'; Philosopher Martin Buber, quoted from ';A Torah Commentary for our Times'; by Harvey J. Fields


.Were the Tanakh prophesies purposely impossible so the Jews would not be led astray by a false prophet?
One thing I've noticed in all my interactions with faith heads is that they universally require a backdoor to sneak out of. This is usually presented at the beginning of their diatribe and used as support for whatever comes after.





I'm starting to see where they may have learned this little trick.





eric k shoots and scores!
The Tanach as recorded has ended. Only Messianic Jews are Torah observant because only Messianic Jews worship in a Temple with a High Priest, sacrifice and a God who speaks to His people.





Those who rebuilt Solomon's Temple renamed it, ***Herod's Temple.*** These that give the Temple this name have not heard the voice of God. The age without prophets started well before Jesus.





By definition, being lead astray means preparing a seat for Elijah, the prophet, at the Passover meal while maintaining the age of prophets has ended. If the age of the prophets came to an end, then how can any prophet be predicted by another prophet come to dine with anyone at Passover?





God made us for a reason...


We have brains, mouths, and ears for a reason....





If God doesn't tell us why we are here, then how can we do what we were created to do? And if we don't do what God made us as an individual to do, then we are broken creations needing our Creator to fix us.





If it were impossible for the Jews to be led by false prophets then this would be a change to the Tanach's record. Numbers has the Jews trying kill Moses and would have been successful if God hadn't intervened. And it was Moses, the prophet, that told the world about a Messiah to come.





Nehemiah 9:25...so they did eat, and were filled, and became fat, and luxuriated in Thy great goodness. 26 Nevertheless they were disobedient, and rebelled against Thee, and cast Thy law behind their back, and slew Thy prophets that did forewarn them to turn them back unto Thee, and they wrought great provocations. 27 Therefore Thou didst deliver them into the hand of their adversaries, who distressed them;


http://www.hareidi.org/bible/Nehemiah9.h鈥?/a>





As Cat's Meow expert in Judaism since birth said, ***Atheism doesn't, strange as it may sound, violate Judaism; there are Jewish Atheists. As Atheism doesn't involve worshipping idols or other deities, and as Atheists can and do enjoy and respect the complex ethical structure within Judaism, there's not the conflict that one might expect to find.***





The only way the Jews would not have conflicts with Atheists is both Jew and Atheist believed the same thing about monotheism and the scriptures.





This is consistent with the Jews belief they don't have anything in common with Christians who are





mono-thesis and


call the Tanach their scripture.





Messianic Jews and Christians pray that the Talmud observant would once more follow the voice of God.





Hope this helps.





EDIT:





Am Israel Chai!, expert in Talmud Judaism since birth, said:





';A prophet never foretells 'a fixed, unchangeable future.' Prophets do not predict what will happen tomorrow. Instead, 'they announce a present that requires human choice and decision.' It is a present 'in which the future is being prepared' but whose outcome depends upon the work and decisions of human beings.'; Philosopher Martin Buber, quoted from ';A Torah Commentary for our Times'; by Harvey J. Fields





Apparently, there is a movement against Moses and the Torah.





Moses said in the Hebrew Bible: Deuteronomy18:21 And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath not spoken?' 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.


http://www.hareidi.org/bible/Deuteronomy鈥?/a>





Jews expect Elijah and the Messiah because a prophet foretold of their coming. Can we stop God from sending them as Martin and Harvey would have us believe or would these be considered ***'a fixed, unchangeable future.'***?





Am Israel Chai! argument is self-defeating if Judaism is monotheistic and if Judaism believes in the Tanach.
Interesting take.. but G-D also wants his people to trust him, even if it does seem that it is impossible.
prophet Jesus ?
Wow, talk about ';failure by design';.
You mean, God was lying. Prophesy is meant for instruction.
The authors of the prophetic texts in the Neviim depicted the prophets divining oracles which related to 'things' that were happening at that time or were going to happen as a result of Israel's iniquitous actions.





For the most part, the texts were didactic and followed a predictable theme of indictment and punishment, or indictment, warning/threat of punishment and 'repent and return'.





Selected prophetic texts, e.g. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Micah, Malachi, etcetera, have been erroneously interpreted as predicting the Christian Messiah.





Contrary to popular Christian belief, the 'prophets' were not forth tellers. The blatant disregard for cultural and historical relevance, as well as the proof texting of certain passages of these scriptures, has lent to outrageous condemnations of inter-ethnic marriage, homosexuality, the nature of God and God's 'plan' for the Christian elite.....





Absolutely disgusting! Not the Bible mind you, not the multitude of global religions which currently exist, but the select few, self-important sheep.....
The answer ';that they will be completely fulfilled by the second coming'; seems like little more than an excuse to them and no justification for accepting Jesus as that prophet obviously. I can even understand why they feel that is the conclusion that should be drawn from them - being Christian I think that is not the correct interpretation but I see the logic behind the argument.





Words will always be able to be interpreted to prove whatever point you wish to make if you have made up your mind before you start reading them. Delving into the arcane meanings of words and trying to understand both literal and figurative intent is the meat and potatoes of religion... at least for me.

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